I would like to comment on a couple aspects of this editorial. First
I find the initial points he makes about letterboxing and geocaching
increase the demand for public sites irrelevant. Many activities are
conducted on public sites and that is why they are maintained- for
the public to enjoy. The point he makes about not burying letterboxes
or geocaches is well taken and one which most responsible
participants would endorse. The idea of not disturbing archeological
or environmentally sensitive areas is a general concern too,
photographers would create the same traffic as our participants which
is much more adverse than the mere existence of a letterbox or
geocache. The issue of littering is more controversial, and one of
the reasons I have tried to begin developing StoneStashing. I can see
the argument for containers with man made objects being viewed as
trash by some people (though I don't agree). That is the reason that
when I started the thought process that led to StoneStashing I wanted
no unnatural objects of any kind involved. Admittedly the stones left
by participants are not "native" to a particular site, but they are
inert natural objects likely to be entirely unnoticed by anyone not
looking for them.
I think his last paragraph:
"I acknowledge the attractiveness of the "hunt" associated with these
activities, but I am left with a question in my mind: "Whatever
happened to the good old walk in the woods for the mere enjoyment of
doing so?"
sums up where he is coming from. It is a mindset that why should
treasure hunting be invovled at all, if people don't appreciate the
woods just for the natural beauty. I find myself wondering why there
was no reference to orienteering. Obviously we all need to be
sensitive to the environmental impacts of our activities and keep
that in the forefront of our minds. Responsible recreating in public
and private lands is an individual responsibility whether you are
hiking, mountain biking, orienteering, hunting, fishing,
letterboxing, geocaching, stonestashing, or just out for a walk.
--
Regards,
Eric Mings
Letterboxing International: http://www.letterboxing.com
StoneStashing: http://www.stonestashing.com
Concerns about letterboxing effects on the site.
17 messages in this thread |
Started on 2001-07-20
Concerns about letterboxing effects on the site.
From: Robert LaBelle (rll1924@linkny.com) |
Date: 2001-07-20 20:24:40 UTC-04:00
Letterboxers All !
I'm sure many, if not most,
of us have thought about this already, so you'll not be surprised that the
superintendent of one of our major hiking trails has aired his concerns in
North Star, the magazine of the North Country Trail Assn. (NCTA).
In the July -Sept. issue Tom Gilbert, Supt. of the Ice Age/North Country Scenic
Trails has a very thought-provoking discussion of the issues. He notes the
adverse effects of the foot traffic and
possible disruption of resources . . . even of littering. He points the
finger at geocaching, as well as letterboxing. Rather than rehash the
points he makes, I invite you to visit the Website of the NCTA: <www.northcountrytrail.org> and
look for the link to the article, "Geocaching - New Trail Activity? or
Retreat from Accepted Trail Ethics?" in the right hand column of the
home-page . . . or at some point it may be archived but
accessible.
As one involved in
maintaining the Finger Lakes Trail, and the North Country Trail where it
coincides, I'm well aware of the implications of citing a box along the Trail,
whether on public land or private. It becomes more critical in heavy use
areas. And I've also already offended the authorities by searching
(turning over stones !?) in an archeological area. I've followed various
practices for obtaining permission on public sites; prior inquiry,
after-the-fact, or not at all (trusting the activity to be minimal and the
practitioners suitably discrete).
I invite your comments and
suggestions. I've informed the author that I would take the issue to this
TalkList, so he may be looking in to see the reaction.
Bob / Cock o' the Trail
Re: [LbNA] Concerns about letterboxing effects on the site.
From: Eric Mings (elm@letterboxing.com) |
Date: 2001-07-20 21:28:12 UTC-04:00
Re: Concerns about letterboxing effects on the site.
From: Bill (bburk@worldnet.att.net) |
Date: 2001-07-21 01:37:31 UTC
I'm sure Mr. Gilbert has valid concern for worry.
I have seen the damages that over-use can cause to fragile ecosystems.
Most recently in a city park where bicycles were allowed. The bikes
had carved deep 'V's in the inclined trails.
Another instance was an alpine lake that had originally been
accessible only on foot and had been opened to auto traffic. The
ecosystem just couldn't stand up to the increased usage. The end
result was the destruction of the very thing that drew the public in
the first place.
While letterboxing, geocaching and like activities have the potential
to cause damage; I believe it is up to the participants to act in a
responsible manner and limit excursions to the trail and to places
that can be reached without damaging indigenous plants and wildlife
habitat.
----
Bill
--- In letterbox-usa@y..., "Robert LaBelle" wrote:
> Letterboxers All !
> I'm sure many, if not most, of us have thought about this
already, so you'll not be surprised that the superintendent of one of
our major hiking trails has aired his concerns in North Star, the
magazine of the North Country Trail Assn. (NCTA). In the July -Sept.
issue Tom Gilbert, Supt. of the Ice Age/North Country Scenic Trails
has a very thought-provoking discussion of the issues. He notes the
adverse effects of the foot traffic and possible disruption of
resources . . . even of littering. He points the finger at
geocaching, as well as letterboxing. Rather than rehash the points
he makes, I invite you to visit the Website of the NCTA:
and look for the link to the
article, "Geocaching - New Trail Activity? or Retreat from Accepted
Trail Ethics?" in the right hand column of the home-page . . . or at
some point it may be archived but accessible.
> As one involved in maintaining the Finger Lakes Trail, and the
North Country Trail where it coincides, I'm well aware of the
implications of citing a box along the Trail, whether on public land
or private. It becomes more critical in heavy use areas. And I've
also already offended the authorities by searching (turning over
stones !?) in an archeological area. I've followed various practices
for obtaining permission on public sites; prior inquiry, after-the-
fact, or not at all (trusting the activity to be minimal and the
practitioners suitably discrete).
> I invite your comments and suggestions. I've informed the
author that I would take the issue to this TalkList, so he may be
looking in to see the reaction.
> Bob / Cock o' the Trail
I have seen the damages that over-use can cause to fragile ecosystems.
Most recently in a city park where bicycles were allowed. The bikes
had carved deep 'V's in the inclined trails.
Another instance was an alpine lake that had originally been
accessible only on foot and had been opened to auto traffic. The
ecosystem just couldn't stand up to the increased usage. The end
result was the destruction of the very thing that drew the public in
the first place.
While letterboxing, geocaching and like activities have the potential
to cause damage; I believe it is up to the participants to act in a
responsible manner and limit excursions to the trail and to places
that can be reached without damaging indigenous plants and wildlife
habitat.
----
Bill
--- In letterbox-usa@y..., "Robert LaBelle"
> Letterboxers All !
> I'm sure many, if not most, of us have thought about this
already, so you'll not be surprised that the superintendent of one of
our major hiking trails has aired his concerns in North Star, the
magazine of the North Country Trail Assn. (NCTA). In the July -Sept.
issue Tom Gilbert, Supt. of the Ice Age/North Country Scenic Trails
has a very thought-provoking discussion of the issues. He notes the
adverse effects of the foot traffic and possible disruption of
resources . . . even of littering. He points the finger at
geocaching, as well as letterboxing. Rather than rehash the points
he makes, I invite you to visit the Website of the NCTA:
article, "Geocaching - New Trail Activity? or Retreat from Accepted
Trail Ethics?" in the right hand column of the home-page . . . or at
some point it may be archived but accessible.
> As one involved in maintaining the Finger Lakes Trail, and the
North Country Trail where it coincides, I'm well aware of the
implications of citing a box along the Trail, whether on public land
or private. It becomes more critical in heavy use areas. And I've
also already offended the authorities by searching (turning over
stones !?) in an archeological area. I've followed various practices
for obtaining permission on public sites; prior inquiry, after-the-
fact, or not at all (trusting the activity to be minimal and the
practitioners suitably discrete).
> I invite your comments and suggestions. I've informed the
author that I would take the issue to this TalkList, so he may be
looking in to see the reaction.
> Bob / Cock o' the Trail
Re: [LbNA] Concerns about letterboxing effects on the site.
From: Eric Mings (elm@letterboxing.com) |
Date: 2001-07-20 21:58:21 UTC-04:00
Just a clarification about my comment on his lack of reference to
orienteering. He did refer to it in a positive light as a "event." My
point was that orienteering (as I understand it) being competitive
encourages people to get it done as fast as possible, and that to me
means the distinct possibility of off trail excursions with much
greater potential for harm might occur with carefully placed
letterboxes.
--
Regards,
Eric Mings
Letterboxing International: http://www.letterboxing.com
StoneStashing: http://www.stonestashing.com
orienteering. He did refer to it in a positive light as a "event." My
point was that orienteering (as I understand it) being competitive
encourages people to get it done as fast as possible, and that to me
means the distinct possibility of off trail excursions with much
greater potential for harm might occur with carefully placed
letterboxes.
--
Regards,
Eric Mings
Letterboxing International: http://www.letterboxing.com
StoneStashing: http://www.stonestashing.com
Re: Concerns about letterboxing effects on the site.
From: (trishkri@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2001-07-21 02:33:56 UTC
I read the article by Mr. Gilbert and agree in general with his first
three points. I think that most of us already follow his third that
states not to bury the article. I don't necessarily agree with his
fourth point. Is it better to have an organized group of 50
people "trampling" a section of trail etc. at once or would it be
less harmful in the long run to have that same number of visitors
spread over a year?
A few things came to mind when I read the article and the first one
is that change is not necessarily a bad thing. If letterboxing can
encourage people to get out and enjoy new areas without impacting the
environment is that bad? One of the things I enjoy most about the
sport is breaking out of a rut and not visiting the "same old trails"
over and over again. On the other hand when I do visit a familiar
trail that has a new letterbox it is refreshing to see the area anew
through someone else's eyes.
The other point is that I don't see letterboxing as littering. A
very small, discrete, inert object is carefully hidden, hopefully in
an area that will not impact the surrounding environment or cause the
seeker to adversely affect it either. Thankfully in New England we
have lots of rocks and stone walls that make this part of the sport
easy. It does not encourage people to increase the volume of
unnatural objects in an area. Since most people involved in the
sport do so because of an appreciation for the environment they are
more likely than the average "walker" to pick up trash they do see.
So much for my $.02 late on a Friday night.
Trish Kurdziel
three points. I think that most of us already follow his third that
states not to bury the article. I don't necessarily agree with his
fourth point. Is it better to have an organized group of 50
people "trampling" a section of trail etc. at once or would it be
less harmful in the long run to have that same number of visitors
spread over a year?
A few things came to mind when I read the article and the first one
is that change is not necessarily a bad thing. If letterboxing can
encourage people to get out and enjoy new areas without impacting the
environment is that bad? One of the things I enjoy most about the
sport is breaking out of a rut and not visiting the "same old trails"
over and over again. On the other hand when I do visit a familiar
trail that has a new letterbox it is refreshing to see the area anew
through someone else's eyes.
The other point is that I don't see letterboxing as littering. A
very small, discrete, inert object is carefully hidden, hopefully in
an area that will not impact the surrounding environment or cause the
seeker to adversely affect it either. Thankfully in New England we
have lots of rocks and stone walls that make this part of the sport
easy. It does not encourage people to increase the volume of
unnatural objects in an area. Since most people involved in the
sport do so because of an appreciation for the environment they are
more likely than the average "walker" to pick up trash they do see.
So much for my $.02 late on a Friday night.
Trish Kurdziel
Re: [LbNA] Concerns about letterboxing effects on the site.
From: Linda Kuzyk (lindakuzyk@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2001-07-21 06:51:38 UTC-07:00
You have said it all, Eric. My first reaction to the
article was one of anger. I was ready to let the
words fly, but having given it some thought, I have to
respect anyone who has a love and concern for anything
natural getting disturbed, or worse, trashed. I love
the out-of-doors and as a teacher, focus a whole lot
on environmental issues, among them, "LEAVE NO TRACE."
My kids know it and understand it by heart. I have
fallen in love with letterboxing and wouldn't place my
boxes in any area or spot that would have the
potential to disturb anything, now or later. Anyway,
in the process of trying to word a response, your
response came up and BINGO...it says it all. As long
as we all are AWARE and cautious, what the heck...
let's continue to have fun without feeling the
negative impact a letter like that has the potential
of creating. We are doing no harm, and let me tell
you, Peter and I ARE enjoying the hikes and walks for
the sake of the beauty around us. The only difference
is a big old grin and that feeling of excitement when
we EVER so carefully plant a letterbox in a place that
will do no harm as it sits and waits and will do no
harm when people come and carefully search for it.
You know, it gets people out and about, and gets
people connected. This is living life and having some
fun (carefully.) I guess I got a bit long-winded
there. I love letterboxing, Linda of PetLinK
--- Eric Mings wrote:
> I would like to comment on a couple aspects of this
> editorial. First
> I find the initial points he makes about
> letterboxing and geocaching
> increase the demand for public sites irrelevant.
> Many activities are
> conducted on public sites and that is why they are
> maintained- for
> the public to enjoy. The point he makes about not
> burying letterboxes
> or geocaches is well taken and one which most
> responsible
> participants would endorse. The idea of not
> disturbing archeological
> or environmentally sensitive areas is a general
> concern too,
> photographers would create the same traffic as our
> participants which
> is much more adverse than the mere existence of a
> letterbox or
> geocache. The issue of littering is more
> controversial, and one of
> the reasons I have tried to begin developing
> StoneStashing. I can see
> the argument for containers with man made objects
> being viewed as
> trash by some people (though I don't agree). That is
> the reason that
> when I started the thought process that led to
> StoneStashing I wanted
> no unnatural objects of any kind involved.
> Admittedly the stones left
> by participants are not "native" to a particular
> site, but they are
> inert natural objects likely to be entirely
> unnoticed by anyone not
> looking for them.
>
> I think his last paragraph:
>
> "I acknowledge the attractiveness of the "hunt"
> associated with these
> activities, but I am left with a question in my
> mind: "Whatever
> happened to the good old walk in the woods for the
> mere enjoyment of
> doing so?"
>
> sums up where he is coming from. It is a mindset
> that why should
> treasure hunting be invovled at all, if people don't
> appreciate the
> woods just for the natural beauty. I find myself
> wondering why there
> was no reference to orienteering. Obviously we all
> need to be
> sensitive to the environmental impacts of our
> activities and keep
> that in the forefront of our minds. Responsible
> recreating in public
> and private lands is an individual responsibility
> whether you are
> hiking, mountain biking, orienteering, hunting,
> fishing,
> letterboxing, geocaching, stonestashing, or just out
> for a walk.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Eric Mings
>
> Letterboxing International:
> http://www.letterboxing.com
> StoneStashing: http://www.stonestashing.com
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
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article was one of anger. I was ready to let the
words fly, but having given it some thought, I have to
respect anyone who has a love and concern for anything
natural getting disturbed, or worse, trashed. I love
the out-of-doors and as a teacher, focus a whole lot
on environmental issues, among them, "LEAVE NO TRACE."
My kids know it and understand it by heart. I have
fallen in love with letterboxing and wouldn't place my
boxes in any area or spot that would have the
potential to disturb anything, now or later. Anyway,
in the process of trying to word a response, your
response came up and BINGO...it says it all. As long
as we all are AWARE and cautious, what the heck...
let's continue to have fun without feeling the
negative impact a letter like that has the potential
of creating. We are doing no harm, and let me tell
you, Peter and I ARE enjoying the hikes and walks for
the sake of the beauty around us. The only difference
is a big old grin and that feeling of excitement when
we EVER so carefully plant a letterbox in a place that
will do no harm as it sits and waits and will do no
harm when people come and carefully search for it.
You know, it gets people out and about, and gets
people connected. This is living life and having some
fun (carefully.) I guess I got a bit long-winded
there. I love letterboxing, Linda of PetLinK
--- Eric Mings
> I would like to comment on a couple aspects of this
> editorial. First
> I find the initial points he makes about
> letterboxing and geocaching
> increase the demand for public sites irrelevant.
> Many activities are
> conducted on public sites and that is why they are
> maintained- for
> the public to enjoy. The point he makes about not
> burying letterboxes
> or geocaches is well taken and one which most
> responsible
> participants would endorse. The idea of not
> disturbing archeological
> or environmentally sensitive areas is a general
> concern too,
> photographers would create the same traffic as our
> participants which
> is much more adverse than the mere existence of a
> letterbox or
> geocache. The issue of littering is more
> controversial, and one of
> the reasons I have tried to begin developing
> StoneStashing. I can see
> the argument for containers with man made objects
> being viewed as
> trash by some people (though I don't agree). That is
> the reason that
> when I started the thought process that led to
> StoneStashing I wanted
> no unnatural objects of any kind involved.
> Admittedly the stones left
> by participants are not "native" to a particular
> site, but they are
> inert natural objects likely to be entirely
> unnoticed by anyone not
> looking for them.
>
> I think his last paragraph:
>
> "I acknowledge the attractiveness of the "hunt"
> associated with these
> activities, but I am left with a question in my
> mind: "Whatever
> happened to the good old walk in the woods for the
> mere enjoyment of
> doing so?"
>
> sums up where he is coming from. It is a mindset
> that why should
> treasure hunting be invovled at all, if people don't
> appreciate the
> woods just for the natural beauty. I find myself
> wondering why there
> was no reference to orienteering. Obviously we all
> need to be
> sensitive to the environmental impacts of our
> activities and keep
> that in the forefront of our minds. Responsible
> recreating in public
> and private lands is an individual responsibility
> whether you are
> hiking, mountain biking, orienteering, hunting,
> fishing,
> letterboxing, geocaching, stonestashing, or just out
> for a walk.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Eric Mings
>
> Letterboxing International:
> http://www.letterboxing.com
> StoneStashing: http://www.stonestashing.com
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
Re: [LbNA] Concerns about letterboxing effects on the site.
From: Denise A. Nelson (isagobi@gate.net) |
Date: 2001-07-21 10:01:31 UTC-04:00
The combination of both you and Eric have expressed it perfectly. What a
lovely day to spend the day going where I never would have been if there
wasn't some suggestion from someone else - and a bonus of an hunt is a nice
touch.
Please - different stamps in each box.
lovely day to spend the day going where I never would have been if there
wasn't some suggestion from someone else - and a bonus of an hunt is a nice
touch.
Please - different stamps in each box.
Re: Concerns about letterboxing effects on the site.
From: (Nuthatch@PaperDance.com) |
Date: 2001-07-21 21:17:45 UTC
I agree (of course! I'm on this list, aren't I?) that letterboxing
cannot be ruled littering and/or damaging to natural resources until
other activities are ruled as such. Some of the arguments I can think
of (don't get me wrong, I enjoy a couple of these activities myself):
Ski areas: they can be seen for miles, marked where trees have been
removed to create runs, as well as the installment of parking lots,
buildings and ski lifts.
Horses on trails: why do dog owners have to clean up after Fido but
the horse rider isn't expected to clean up after their horse? Related
to this is all the mules used to carry people down into Grand Canyon
and back up.
Orienteering: Orange courses and up take competitors cross country to
find the controls. Even yellow courses take competitors a little off-
trail at times.
Boating and Snowmobiling: noise pollution, possible gas and oil
spills.
Logging, mining, oil drilling. Enough said.
Also, letterboxing brings people out to enjoy the parks, who
otherwise might not, thereby increasing the number of people who will
fight for open spaces, and bring in money where there is a land use
fee. It may also increase tourist spending in the area being visited.
I do agree it logically goes against the "take only pictures, leave
only footprints" but letterboxes aren't garbage, and if I see that
any of mine create a negative impact, I will promptly remove them.
Adding my $0.02,
Karen
cannot be ruled littering and/or damaging to natural resources until
other activities are ruled as such. Some of the arguments I can think
of (don't get me wrong, I enjoy a couple of these activities myself):
Ski areas: they can be seen for miles, marked where trees have been
removed to create runs, as well as the installment of parking lots,
buildings and ski lifts.
Horses on trails: why do dog owners have to clean up after Fido but
the horse rider isn't expected to clean up after their horse? Related
to this is all the mules used to carry people down into Grand Canyon
and back up.
Orienteering: Orange courses and up take competitors cross country to
find the controls. Even yellow courses take competitors a little off-
trail at times.
Boating and Snowmobiling: noise pollution, possible gas and oil
spills.
Logging, mining, oil drilling. Enough said.
Also, letterboxing brings people out to enjoy the parks, who
otherwise might not, thereby increasing the number of people who will
fight for open spaces, and bring in money where there is a land use
fee. It may also increase tourist spending in the area being visited.
I do agree it logically goes against the "take only pictures, leave
only footprints" but letterboxes aren't garbage, and if I see that
any of mine create a negative impact, I will promptly remove them.
Adding my $0.02,
Karen
Re: [LbNA] Re: Concerns about letterboxing effects on the site.
From: Eric J. Eurto (enicltrbxr@netzero.net) |
Date: 2001-07-22 18:38:05 UTC-04:00
The United States is fledgling in the development of the activities of
Letterboxing and Geocaching.
Letterboxing is not new to the world as we all know. Dartmoor is a park
inundated by treasure as well as the whole of England. What environmental
impact has letterboxing made "over there?" As a proponent of the Leave No
Trace ethic both personally and professionally, the article does raise some
good points. However, impact on the environment that a letterbox can have on
the environment is minimal in my honest opinion. The impact that a person
following a clue can have on the environment can be tremendous however. Some
clues can take us off trail which does conflict with the LNT ethic (which is
so liberally vague in the first place). Sorry folks, no one can make me
believe that bushwhacking in any form is BAD, BAD, BAD. Deer bushwhack every
day. I think bears do too. Some bushwhacking can be done without massive
harm to the environment surrounding it. Nature is self healing when you
apply it to minimal bushwhacking. Hence, my clues leave little impact to the
environment when you hunt for my boxes. However, some areas that have that
"sensitive" vegitation should not be trodden on to preserve the natural
order of the ecosystem that they co-exist with.
Although I oppose any geocaching that involves containers that cannot be
easily hidden due to their size (i.e. 5 gallon buckets or ammo cans) I do
support geocaching in its provision of "the hunt" in the great outdoors. I
do have a problem with the movie industry (Planet of the Apes) using
geocaching to promote thier movie. I simply cannot find the correlation
between cache and ape. Sorry, I just don't get it.
But, at any rate. As letterboxers/geocachers, i'm sure at some point we'll
all have to comply with some silly state or federal law hampering the "hunt"
on pulick lands. And, i'm sure, Connecticut will be one of the first
opponents of Letterboxing. Ever notice you can't camp anywhere in CT without
a permit?
Eric J. Eurto
AKA ~The Ram~
"risk gentlemen, that's why we're aboard her"
-Captain James T. Kirk (would make an excellent letterboxer)
NetZero Platinum
No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access
Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
http://www.netzero.net
Letterboxing and Geocaching.
Letterboxing is not new to the world as we all know. Dartmoor is a park
inundated by treasure as well as the whole of England. What environmental
impact has letterboxing made "over there?" As a proponent of the Leave No
Trace ethic both personally and professionally, the article does raise some
good points. However, impact on the environment that a letterbox can have on
the environment is minimal in my honest opinion. The impact that a person
following a clue can have on the environment can be tremendous however. Some
clues can take us off trail which does conflict with the LNT ethic (which is
so liberally vague in the first place). Sorry folks, no one can make me
believe that bushwhacking in any form is BAD, BAD, BAD. Deer bushwhack every
day. I think bears do too. Some bushwhacking can be done without massive
harm to the environment surrounding it. Nature is self healing when you
apply it to minimal bushwhacking. Hence, my clues leave little impact to the
environment when you hunt for my boxes. However, some areas that have that
"sensitive" vegitation should not be trodden on to preserve the natural
order of the ecosystem that they co-exist with.
Although I oppose any geocaching that involves containers that cannot be
easily hidden due to their size (i.e. 5 gallon buckets or ammo cans) I do
support geocaching in its provision of "the hunt" in the great outdoors. I
do have a problem with the movie industry (Planet of the Apes) using
geocaching to promote thier movie. I simply cannot find the correlation
between cache and ape. Sorry, I just don't get it.
But, at any rate. As letterboxers/geocachers, i'm sure at some point we'll
all have to comply with some silly state or federal law hampering the "hunt"
on pulick lands. And, i'm sure, Connecticut will be one of the first
opponents of Letterboxing. Ever notice you can't camp anywhere in CT without
a permit?
Eric J. Eurto
AKA ~The Ram~
"risk gentlemen, that's why we're aboard her"
-Captain James T. Kirk (would make an excellent letterboxer)
NetZero Platinum
No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access
Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
http://www.netzero.net
Re: Concerns about letterboxing effects on the site.
From: Mark S. Fitton (mfitton@snet.net) |
Date: 2001-07-23 23:12:06 UTC-04:00
I'm sure that many have already had their say on this subject, but I think
Mr. Gilbert should know that I was a hiker of our State's trails long
before I was ever a letterboxer. I strive to adhere to the very things he
is for. I have met a few of the posters here and I'm sure they are of the
same mind.
Most letterboxers already were out there on the trails. Besides, kids love
letterboxing and it gives us older types the opportunity to teach them the
rules of the forest and other parts of the wilderness. My kids (age 10 and
12) have become adept at finding their way through a forest. They know how
to use a compass and how to read a map. They respect nature and fear it.
They come prepared. Letterboxing has made this an easy thing for me to
teach them. How is this a bad thing?
I've mentioned letterboxing to over 50 people in my area. Most weren't the
outdoors type, and letterboxing didn't change that for them. The four that
were interested all had extensive outdoor experience. In this fast paced
society, I fear that the trend is going to be away from the trails in favor
of more electronic entertainment. Certainly not in my household, but in a
great many others. The silver lining to this is that nature will be used
only by those who most respect it.
If you're still reading, thanks.
Mark
Mr. Gilbert should know that I was a hiker of our State's trails long
before I was ever a letterboxer. I strive to adhere to the very things he
is for. I have met a few of the posters here and I'm sure they are of the
same mind.
Most letterboxers already were out there on the trails. Besides, kids love
letterboxing and it gives us older types the opportunity to teach them the
rules of the forest and other parts of the wilderness. My kids (age 10 and
12) have become adept at finding their way through a forest. They know how
to use a compass and how to read a map. They respect nature and fear it.
They come prepared. Letterboxing has made this an easy thing for me to
teach them. How is this a bad thing?
I've mentioned letterboxing to over 50 people in my area. Most weren't the
outdoors type, and letterboxing didn't change that for them. The four that
were interested all had extensive outdoor experience. In this fast paced
society, I fear that the trend is going to be away from the trails in favor
of more electronic entertainment. Certainly not in my household, but in a
great many others. The silver lining to this is that nature will be used
only by those who most respect it.
If you're still reading, thanks.
Mark
Re: [LbNA] Re: Concerns about letterboxing effects on the site.
From: (AK4X4ing@aol.com) |
Date: 2001-07-24 02:22:50 UTC-04:00
In a message dated 7/23/01 7:10:58 PM Alaskan Daylight Time, mfitton@snet.net
writes:
I just have to pipe in my .02 worth here (no change given, sorry) :o) But
our 4 kids (7,4,3,2) all love to "hide or find the box." Our 7 year old
knows how to use a compass. Our 4 year old can follow clues, our 3 year old
can find his way back to base no matter how far we have gone, and our 2 year
old loves to carry the box and explore all the cool "treasures." We have
learned about volcanic rock, about tides, about first aid, and about working
together as a family to solve a puzzle. And none of that involved vegging
out on the couch. Living in Alaska, we see large wildlife quite frequently,
but it is a different set of rules when you are in THEIR backyard (instead of
them coming to your backdoor) and that is a great thing to learn, too. I
suppose I missed something along the way, but I don't see how Letterboxing is
a bad thing at all. In fact, we mention it to everyone we come in contact
with and even hand out pre made boxes for others to hide (not a large
population of current letter boxers here - all 2 of us - tee hee my husband
and I have to hide them for each other since there isn't much challenge in
finding the same boxes you hid)
Okay I think I am done rambling - feel free to wake up and go about your
regularly scheduled lives. :o)
D&J in AK
writes:
. Besides, kids love
letterboxing and it gives us older types the opportunity to teach them the
rules of the forest and other parts of the wilderness. My kids (age 10 and
12) have become adept at finding their way through a forest. They know how
to use a compass and how to read a map. They respect nature and fear it.
They come prepared. Letterboxing has made this an easy thing for me to
teach them. How is this a bad thing?
I just have to pipe in my .02 worth here (no change given, sorry) :o) But
our 4 kids (7,4,3,2) all love to "hide or find the box." Our 7 year old
knows how to use a compass. Our 4 year old can follow clues, our 3 year old
can find his way back to base no matter how far we have gone, and our 2 year
old loves to carry the box and explore all the cool "treasures." We have
learned about volcanic rock, about tides, about first aid, and about working
together as a family to solve a puzzle. And none of that involved vegging
out on the couch. Living in Alaska, we see large wildlife quite frequently,
but it is a different set of rules when you are in THEIR backyard (instead of
them coming to your backdoor) and that is a great thing to learn, too. I
suppose I missed something along the way, but I don't see how Letterboxing is
a bad thing at all. In fact, we mention it to everyone we come in contact
with and even hand out pre made boxes for others to hide (not a large
population of current letter boxers here - all 2 of us - tee hee my husband
and I have to hide them for each other since there isn't much challenge in
finding the same boxes you hid)
Okay I think I am done rambling - feel free to wake up and go about your
regularly scheduled lives. :o)
D&J in AK
Re: Concerns about letterboxing effects on the site.
From: Amanda Arkebauer (samanark@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2001-07-24 11:20:00 UTC
Being new to the hobby, I have been so excited and I have shared it
with many people, but most don't care---even those who I thought
would be perfect for the sport (my cousin's family who go hiking all
the time---I thought it would be a perfect family sport for them, but
no interest) In fact, most of my friends just chuckle indulgently
when I want to show them my latest stamp! You'd think I had a slide
show of the family vacation.
--Amanda from Seattle>
> I've mentioned letterboxing to over 50 people in my area. Most
weren't the
> outdoors type, and letterboxing didn't change that for them. The
four that
> were interested all had extensive outdoor experience. In this fast
paced
> society, I fear that the trend is going to be away from the trails
in favor
> of more electronic entertainment. Certainly not in my household,
but in a
> great many others. The silver lining to this is that nature will be
used
> only by those who most respect it.
>
> If you're still reading, thanks.
>
>
> Mark
with many people, but most don't care---even those who I thought
would be perfect for the sport (my cousin's family who go hiking all
the time---I thought it would be a perfect family sport for them, but
no interest) In fact, most of my friends just chuckle indulgently
when I want to show them my latest stamp! You'd think I had a slide
show of the family vacation.
--Amanda from Seattle>
> I've mentioned letterboxing to over 50 people in my area. Most
weren't the
> outdoors type, and letterboxing didn't change that for them. The
four that
> were interested all had extensive outdoor experience. In this fast
paced
> society, I fear that the trend is going to be away from the trails
in favor
> of more electronic entertainment. Certainly not in my household,
but in a
> great many others. The silver lining to this is that nature will be
used
> only by those who most respect it.
>
> If you're still reading, thanks.
>
>
> Mark
Re: Concerns about letterboxing effects on the site.
From: Bob LaBelle (rll1924@linkny.com) |
Date: 2001-07-24 13:50:46 UTC
Mark, your point about letterboxing being an inticement to get
kids onto the trail and into the woods is especially well-taken.
This has been noted in many of the posts I've read here in the past
few months. It's not only "good" but extremely important, not just
to the future of this activity, but to the younger generation
themselves.
I'll have an opportunity to test that when my youngest
grandchildren, ages 5 & 10, visit next month. The older ones, to
whom I've made casual mention of my letterboxing exploits, merely
give me that "good lord, what's Gramps up to now ?" look.
The author, Tom Gilbert, has been taken to task a bit too
severely by some, I think. He has a legitimate point of view, as
caretaker of a resource. Does anyone who has visited a state or
national park recently think that vigilance and some formal rules are
not important to their preservation as recreational resources? Some
one has to restrain those who don't care how they use these
facilities and to remind those of us who do care of acceptable use,
as well. He's not so much 'protecting his turf' as doing his job,
and I salute him for that. The flood of response to his article here
is testimony to the importance of his message.
Bob / Cock o' the Trail
--- In letterbox-usa@y..., "Mark S. Fitton" wrote:
> I'm sure that many have already had their say on this subject, but
I think
> Mr. Gilbert should know that I was a hiker of our State's trails
long
> before I was ever a letterboxer. I strive to adhere to the very
things he
> is for. I have met a few of the posters here and I'm sure they are
of the
> same mind.
>
> Most letterboxers already were out there on the trails. Besides,
kids love
> letterboxing and it gives us older types the opportunity to teach
them the
> rules of the forest and other parts of the wilderness. My kids (age
10 and
> 12) have become adept at finding their way through a forest. They
know how
> to use a compass and how to read a map. They respect nature and
fear it.
> They come prepared. Letterboxing has made this an easy thing for me
to
> teach them. How is this a bad thing?
>
> I've mentioned letterboxing to over 50 people in my area. Most
weren't the
> outdoors type, and letterboxing didn't change that for them. The
four that
> were interested all had extensive outdoor experience. In this fast
paced
> society, I fear that the trend is going to be away from the trails
in favor
> of more electronic entertainment. Certainly not in my household,
but in a
> great many others. The silver lining to this is that nature will be
used
> only by those who most respect it.
>
> If you're still reading, thanks.
>
>
> Mark
kids onto the trail and into the woods is especially well-taken.
This has been noted in many of the posts I've read here in the past
few months. It's not only "good" but extremely important, not just
to the future of this activity, but to the younger generation
themselves.
I'll have an opportunity to test that when my youngest
grandchildren, ages 5 & 10, visit next month. The older ones, to
whom I've made casual mention of my letterboxing exploits, merely
give me that "good lord, what's Gramps up to now ?" look.
The author, Tom Gilbert, has been taken to task a bit too
severely by some, I think. He has a legitimate point of view, as
caretaker of a resource. Does anyone who has visited a state or
national park recently think that vigilance and some formal rules are
not important to their preservation as recreational resources? Some
one has to restrain those who don't care how they use these
facilities and to remind those of us who do care of acceptable use,
as well. He's not so much 'protecting his turf' as doing his job,
and I salute him for that. The flood of response to his article here
is testimony to the importance of his message.
Bob / Cock o' the Trail
--- In letterbox-usa@y..., "Mark S. Fitton"
> I'm sure that many have already had their say on this subject, but
I think
> Mr. Gilbert should know that I was a hiker of our State's trails
long
> before I was ever a letterboxer. I strive to adhere to the very
things he
> is for. I have met a few of the posters here and I'm sure they are
of the
> same mind.
>
> Most letterboxers already were out there on the trails. Besides,
kids love
> letterboxing and it gives us older types the opportunity to teach
them the
> rules of the forest and other parts of the wilderness. My kids (age
10 and
> 12) have become adept at finding their way through a forest. They
know how
> to use a compass and how to read a map. They respect nature and
fear it.
> They come prepared. Letterboxing has made this an easy thing for me
to
> teach them. How is this a bad thing?
>
> I've mentioned letterboxing to over 50 people in my area. Most
weren't the
> outdoors type, and letterboxing didn't change that for them. The
four that
> were interested all had extensive outdoor experience. In this fast
paced
> society, I fear that the trend is going to be away from the trails
in favor
> of more electronic entertainment. Certainly not in my household,
but in a
> great many others. The silver lining to this is that nature will be
used
> only by those who most respect it.
>
> If you're still reading, thanks.
>
>
> Mark
Re: [LbNA] Re: Concerns about letterboxing effects on the site.
From: Randy Hall (randy@mapsurfer.com) |
Date: 2001-07-24 12:13:26 UTC-04:00
> I'll have an opportunity to test that when my youngest
> grandchildren, ages 5 & 10,
I can vouch for the fact that 3 year olds like it :-)
Cheers
Re: [LbNA] Re: Concerns about letterboxing effects on the site.
From: Susan/Erik Davis (davisarc@wcvt.com) |
Date: 2001-07-24 13:06:58 UTC-04:00
And, 10 years olds like it and often want to carve stamps, check on
boxes and recruit friends so they can show off trail and compass
skills. Our 21 year old was dragged along to Harpur's Ferry a few years
ago but became the leader in the steamy pouring rain - she would not
give up and we became the first to find the box there.
Susan
boxes and recruit friends so they can show off trail and compass
skills. Our 21 year old was dragged along to Harpur's Ferry a few years
ago but became the leader in the steamy pouring rain - she would not
give up and we became the first to find the box there.
Susan
Re: [LbNA] Re: Concerns about letterboxing effects on the site.
From: Karen Thomsen (thomsen_k@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2001-07-24 11:42:16 UTC-07:00
Well said, Mark.
I also was a hiker long before I became a letterboxer.
I think that someone who did not already have a love
of, and respect for, nature would not be much
interested in this hobby.
Karen in CT
--- "Mark S. Fitton" wrote:
> I'm sure that many have already had their say on
> this subject, but I think
> Mr. Gilbert should know that I was a hiker of our
> State's trails long
> before I was ever a letterboxer. I strive to adhere
> to the very things he
> is for. I have met a few of the posters here and I'm
> sure they are of the
> same mind.
>
> Most letterboxers already were out there on the
> trails. Besides, kids love
> letterboxing and it gives us older types the
> opportunity to teach them the
> rules of the forest and other parts of the
> wilderness. My kids (age 10 and
> 12) have become adept at finding their way through a
> forest. They know how
> to use a compass and how to read a map. They respect
> nature and fear it.
> They come prepared. Letterboxing has made this an
> easy thing for me to
> teach them. How is this a bad thing?
>
> I've mentioned letterboxing to over 50 people in my
> area. Most weren't the
> outdoors type, and letterboxing didn't change that
> for them. The four that
> were interested all had extensive outdoor
> experience. In this fast paced
> society, I fear that the trend is going to be away
> from the trails in favor
> of more electronic entertainment. Certainly not in
> my household, but in a
> great many others. The silver lining to this is that
> nature will be used
> only by those who most respect it.
>
> If you're still reading, thanks.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
I also was a hiker long before I became a letterboxer.
I think that someone who did not already have a love
of, and respect for, nature would not be much
interested in this hobby.
Karen in CT
--- "Mark S. Fitton"
> I'm sure that many have already had their say on
> this subject, but I think
> Mr. Gilbert should know that I was a hiker of our
> State's trails long
> before I was ever a letterboxer. I strive to adhere
> to the very things he
> is for. I have met a few of the posters here and I'm
> sure they are of the
> same mind.
>
> Most letterboxers already were out there on the
> trails. Besides, kids love
> letterboxing and it gives us older types the
> opportunity to teach them the
> rules of the forest and other parts of the
> wilderness. My kids (age 10 and
> 12) have become adept at finding their way through a
> forest. They know how
> to use a compass and how to read a map. They respect
> nature and fear it.
> They come prepared. Letterboxing has made this an
> easy thing for me to
> teach them. How is this a bad thing?
>
> I've mentioned letterboxing to over 50 people in my
> area. Most weren't the
> outdoors type, and letterboxing didn't change that
> for them. The four that
> were interested all had extensive outdoor
> experience. In this fast paced
> society, I fear that the trend is going to be away
> from the trails in favor
> of more electronic entertainment. Certainly not in
> my household, but in a
> great many others. The silver lining to this is that
> nature will be used
> only by those who most respect it.
>
> If you're still reading, thanks.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
Re: [LbNA] Re: Concerns about letterboxing effects on the site.
From: Glenn (Glenn.Hansen@usa.net) |
Date: 2001-07-24 13:47:01 UTC-07:00
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IMHO
Glenn
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IMHO
Glenn